Rose Colored Glasses OSR and 5E Musings

Well, finally got to run a game of Labyrinth Lord with a group of old gamers and some of their kids and cousins. 

I guess I look back at Old School gaming with rose colored glasses as the character creation compared to 5E was 

a drudgery.

Without some kind of very nice preset character creation help built in like 5E has, the game can really be taxing on 

your patience. Once everyone had their characters made we finally started to play.

Now mind you we were already a few hours late getting started. After playing the extremely smooth unified 

mechanics of 5E (and my Back to the Dungeon RPG), I quickly realized that much of the old school systems are quite

clunky in comparison. We just had gotten used to how they work and wrapping our head around another system 

can be hard. 

Having used both 5E is pretty much an old school game (because of the design advice from RPG pundit) mixed with 

some new school unified  mechanics which just simply flows better. It's not totally lethal like B/X games but it can be 

once you have ran out of dice for a short rest AND if you have used the exhaustion mechanics. After that, it becomes 

quite hard on the players once those buffers are gone.

The unified mechanic is pretty much Superior to any and all of the old school methods of task resolution. Why? 

Because system matters if it gets out of the way of the game! Roll a D20 instead of just pulling out the various dice 

for checking on sometimes the same thing. Some abilities use a D6 while as a thief they use a % so after coming 

from the B/X, 2E background from my early days of gaming, it seems 5E mechanics are a sweet spot. Very simply 

it just is way smoother than the old stuff.

I am pretty sure that I will be shelving pretty much all my old school games and for my fantasy fix will just be playing 

Using “0” Level Characters for LL/AEC

Using “0” Level Characters for LL/AEC

SO one feature of a certain other RPG is called “The Funnel”. It basically lets someone roll up a few weak 0 level characters to start adventuring with. If they survive they can choose to become 1st level characters. 

Choose any allowable race in your LL/AEC game. What is allowable?  It’s up to the Gm as he/she is the final rule.

Roll 3d6 in order. 6 times in three columns making three characters for Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, and Cha.

Once abilities have been determined, each player must roll for a skill. You are not picking out a class yet but think of the class you WANT. Each class desired will have a prime requisite, and some classes have a requirement of a minimum ability score. If the prime requisite ability is high enough, the character will receive a bonus to experience.

Sometimes, a player will choose a certain class and the character does not have a prime requisite high enough to receive the experience bonus. In these cases, 2 ability points may be sacrificed from one ability to raise one prime requisite ability 1 point. This may be done more than once, but no ability can be lowered below 9. There are certain restrictions on how to raise or lower abilities. No ability may be lowered if it is also a prime requisite for the class, even if there are a few points to spare above the minimum required score. Dexterity can only be raised, never lowered. Constitution and Charisma are the only abilities that may not be modified in any way.

Roll once d100 Skills.

1. Actor 2. Animal Trainer 3. Appraiser      4. Armorer              5. Baker 6. Banker 7. Barber 8. Bartender 9. Beggar $                10. Blacksmith  11. Boatman        12. Bookbinder             13. Bowyer/Fletcher %  14. Brewer             15. Butcher 16. Burglar $        17. Carpenter       18. Chandler 19. Clown   20. Cobbler    21. Cooper 22. Cook        23. Coppersmith 24. Crier 25. Cutler 26. Dairyman 27. Dancer  28. Drifter $ 29. Dyer 30. Explorer 31. Farmer           32. Fisher   33. Fortune Teller*

34. Friar <      35. Furrier 36. Gambler  37. Game Keeper % 38. Gem Cutter      39. Glassblower 40. Glazier  41. Goldsmith 42. Gravedigger 43. Hatter 44. Herald 45. Horse Trader   46. Huntsman % 47. Investigator 48. Jailer 49. Jeweler 50. Juggler 51. Laborer 52. Lapidary 53. Lens Maker 54. Lorimer 55. Mapmaker 56. Mason 57. Merchant 58. Mime 59. Miner 60. Minstrel 61. Mourner 62. Notary 63. Occultist* 64. Painter 65. Pawnbroker 66. Peasant

67. Perfumer 68. Pimp/Whore 69. Poet 70. Porter 71. Potter 72. Prisoner 73. Puppeteer 74. Rat Catcher 75. Reeve 76. Roper 77. Seafarer 78. Servant 79. Scribe 80. Shepard 81. Shipwright 82. Slater 83. Slave 84. Silversmith 85. Singer 86. Stevedore 87. Tailor 88. Tanner 89. Taxman 90. Thatcher/Roofer 91. Thug 92. Tinkerer 93. Torchbearer 94. Undertaker 95. Vintner 96. Wanderer 97. Weapon Smith 98. Weaver 99. Woodcutter + 100. Roll Twice

*- Has the Spell Read Magic only and can use Magic User scrolls.

$- Has the 0 Level Thief Skills of PL 11%, FRT 9%, PP 18% CW 44%, HIS 8%, HN 1-2

%- Starts out with a Long Bow OR Short Bow and 12 arrows.

+- Starts out with a Hand Axe or Battle Axe.

<- Can cast Clerical scrolls.

Roll 1d4 HPs modified by the Con score.

Roll 1d6 x 10 for gold.

Start out at -500 XP

My god this looks fun as hell!

Back to the Dungeon Zine for LL/AEC Issue 5 released today!

BACK to the Dungeon ZINE

Issue 1.1

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzYaSvmA-OpUVkNUNTNjRUpGMTA/edit?usp=sharing

Issue 2

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzYaSvmA-OpUcWpVRDJNY3RXcUU/edit?usp=sharing

Issue 3

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzYaSvmA-OpURWJVcVhOSTFfYkk/edit?usp=sharing

Issue 4

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzYaSvmA-OpUSE5WTHprSW5NUWs/edit?usp=sharing

Issue 5

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzYaSvmA-OpUTFNuRHhtQ2I0LW8/edit?usp=sharing

Back to the Dungeon ZINE for LL/AEC Issue 4

Back to the Dungeon ZINE for LL/AEC Issue 4

Well it appears that I have yet another issue of the Back to the Dungeon Zine for Labyrinth Lord/ Advance Edition Companion.

There is yet another level of The Black Stairs and a few articles of interest.

Hope your characters survive this dungeon.

If you play it then post your stories.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzYaSvmA-OpUSE5WTHprSW5NUWs/edit?usp=sharing

A repost of a cool gaming session.

Expedition to the Black Stairs 

Written in very rough draft form.

PCs
Eachern M The Cleric
Dalkon M The Dwarven Warrior
Aowen F The Elf Thief
Eva F The Thief

NPCs
Marts MF With Plate and 2H Sword
Melenad FF With Ring Spear and Bow plus Dagger
Belenad FF With Ring Spear and Bow plus Hand Ax
Melenad and Belenad are two attractive foreigner twins.

NPCs not hired
Raph MF With Chain, Shield, and Sword plus Crossbow
Tran MF With Plate, Battle Ax, and Spear

The Black Stairs Servant's quarters.
Dalkon get's let down on rope and he gets shot at by 2 goblins. Aowen goes down below to help. As well as Eva, Belenard, and Marts. Eachern and Melenard tie rope to bush and go down. Belenard proves to be a great shot! Killing one of the goblins and the Dwarf kills the other but not until Melenard is horribly injured! Two goblins are dispatched. Three more goblins come out. The party quickly dispatches them all but poor Marts is killed. The adventurer's explore the rest of the servant's quarters and find much gold and an amulet of protection.

They find door on the western end on the main hallway with a warning written in goblin”No go in here” The Cleric feels unholiness in the area and decides to go to the door to the south instead that opens up into a three way hallway.

The western hallway has a smell (Now as a house rule Dwarves will be able to tell the different kinds of humanoids by their smell!) of some kind of humanoid but the dwarf can't tell what it was.
The southern hallway opens up into a green house.
The eastern hallway goes down to a room with a lit fire.
The players go south into the greenhouse and find two knotted ropes coming down. The cleric decides to cut the ropes ten foot up as the Elf decides to climb up the rope. She finds a mulemaster and a pack mule. The mulemaster is heavily question by the elf as the dwarf climbs up. The dwarf finds out that two of the NPCs that were not hired Raph and Tran have decided to come to the Black Stairs themselves. The Dwarf pays the mulemaster 3 gold and tells him to cut the rope when they get back down. The elf and dwarf climb back down and the rope begins to get pulled back up with the mulemaster explaining that he did not have a knife to cut the rope so he would just pull it up. The Dwarf runs and leaps grabbing the rope. The mulemaster surprised by this does not let go of the rope and accidentally gets pulled down headfirst to his death 20 feet below. The party rolls in laughter with this strange turn of events.
The party then decides to go down the eastern hallway and the elf scouts down the hall and sees three goblins completely distracted by something farther down the hallway. The elf decides to sneak up and gives a battle cry too early allowing the goblins a chance to attack but somehow they all miss. The party quickly dispatches the goblins and find an old mine, 6 slaves and a freshly dug gold mine with many nuggets of gold.

The party decides to get the heck back to Raven's Keep and right in the servant's quarters they are ambushed by Raph and Tran. Raph and Tran attack with crossbow and Spear and miss! They close in and the Dwarf is killed (CRIT!) by Tran as well as Melenad and Beledad. The cleric is taken out as well as the elf but she does manage to kill Raph. Only Eva the thief is left standing as she fires her arrows at Tran hitting him but he still is up. She drops her bow and draws her sword as the battle axe barely misses. They both make a last strike his axe cutting her nearly to death and her blade hitting the mark killing Tran. She tires to heal the cleric and fails and succeeds on the elf who quickly pours a potion of healing that they found earlier in the cleric's mouth.



They limp back to town.







I use the Dave Arneson method of spend the gold in order to get the Experience Points for it.

The cleric is a worshiper of Bobber the god of fishing. He find the temple of Bobber in great disrepair and their acolytes lax. The local priest of Bobber is an old man who claims to be 115 years old. Much gold is spent getting the temple in repair.

The Thief spends her money on much partying.

The Elf Thief spends her money of a fully armored warhorse. A new set of armor, some caltrops, a couple of tattoos, new fancy sets of clothing, and the rest is wasted on partying.

The brother of the Dwarf comes to the city looking for his brother. He is saddened to find that he is dead and is gladdened to find he died in battle with honor.

The party hires the following NPCs
Mark the Fighter M Chain and Shield with Sword.
The Band of Dwarves M, Dully, Martrus, Dontar, Dunkin, and Brannoc. All had Ring and Shield with Battle Axes!
There was Stryder the Elf Warrior and Mage with Longbow ready to fire.

They all headed back to the Black Stairs ready for Part 1.5 which I will tell later...

The party hires the following NPCs
Mark the Fighter M Chain and Shield with Sword.
The Band of Dwarves M, Dully, Martrus, Dontar, Dunkin, and Brannoc. All had Ring and Shield with Battle Axes!
There was Stryder the Elf Warrior and Mage with Longbow ready to fire.

They all headed back to the Black Stairs ready!

The party went back in and found the slaughter house. An animal pen, a blood pit that scraps and blood was drained to the unused 3rd level and the actual kitchen.

The party and their retainers bumbled around until they attracted the attention of some zombies. The cleric turned all of one of the dead but the party foolishly pursued the zombies and lost two dwarfs. The zombies were dispatched though.

The fighter Mark kept talking smack about the superiority of humans as the party explored the slaughterhouse area of the dungeon. The Player Dwarf pushed him down the bloodhole. He survived the fall but the party discovered he met a gang of ghouls who quickly dispatched foolish Mark but not before he beheaded one of them. A quick application of oil dispatched another ghoul but the party knows going deeper they will have to face them.

They explored a bit more and found a horde of dishes and silverware. The best find was a huge set of gold candle holders. The headed back to Raven's Fort where they cashed in the items for gold.

A party of legend has happened for the last three weeks as the Adventurers have unleashed a time of drunken debauchery right during The Summer Festival of the Lottery. With the huge amount of gold the party has shut down much of the city for the last three weeks. Crops have not been tended, cows not milked, jobs not done, the city has put in a virtual standstill. Drunken citizens lay all about the street for the last three weeks! The party is out of money and the Baron is now displeased. Time to leave town!

This was a Swords and Wizardyr game but I converted the world to LL/AEC.

Sadly some of the players claimed they did not enjoy the game. IF we would have been using 4E then the same game would have taken MANY sessions.  They only wanted to play 4E. 

The Funnel for LL/AEC

Choose a race

Roll 3d6 in order. 6 times in four columns  for Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, and Cha making four characters.

Once abilities have been determined, each player must roll for a skill. You are not picking out a class yet but think of the class you WANT. Each class desired will have a prime requisite, and some classes have a requirement of a minimum ability score. If the prime requisite ability is high enough, the character will receive a bonus to experience. Sometimes, a player will choose a certain class and the character does not have a prime requisite high enough to receive the experience bonus. In these cases, 2 ability points may be sacrificed from one ability to raise one prime requisite ability 1 point. This may be done more than once, but no ability can be lowered below 9. There are certain restrictions on how to raise or lower abilities. No ability may be lowered if it is also a prime requisite for the class, even if there are a few points to spare above the minimum required score. Dexterity can only be raised, never lowered. Constitution and Charisma are the only abilities that may not be modified in any way.

Roll once d100 Skills.

1. Actor 2. Animal Trainer 3. Appraiser 4. Armorer 5. Baker 6. Banker 7. Barber 8. Bartender 9. Beggar $ 10. Blacksmith 11. Boatman 12. Bookbinder 13. Bowyer/Fletcher % 14. Brewer 15. Butcher 16. Burglar $ 17. Carpenter 18. Chandler 19. Clown 20. Cobbler 21. Cooper 22. Cook 23. Coppersmith 24. Crier 25. Cutler 26. Dairyman 27. Dancer 28. Drifter $ 29. Dyer 30. Explorer 31. Farmer 32. Fisher 33. Fortune Teller* 34. Friar < 35. Furrier 36. Gambler 37. Game Keeper % 38. Gem Cutter 39. Glassblower 40. Glazier 41. Goldsmith 42. Gravedigger 43. Hatter 44. Herald 45. Horse Trader 46. Huntsman % 47. Investigator 48. Jailer 49. Jeweler 50. Juggler

51. Laborer 52. Lapidary 53. Lens Maker 54. Lorimer 55. Mapmaker 56. Mason 57. Merchant 58. Mime 59. Miner 60. Minstrel 61. Mourner 62. Notary 63. Occultist* 64. Painter 65. Pawnbroker 66. Peasant 67. Perfumer 68. Pimp/Whore 69. Poet 70. Porter 71. Potter 72. Prisoner 73. Puppeteer 74. Rat Catcher 75. Reeve 76. Roper 77. Seafarer 78. Servant 79. Scribe 80. Shepard 81. Shipwright 82. Slater 83. Slave 84. Silversmith 85. Singer 86. Stevedore 87. Tailor 88. Tanner 89. Taxman 90. Thatcher/Roofer 91. Thug 92. Tinkerer 93. Torchbearer 94. Undertaker 95. Vintner 96. Wanderer 97. Weapon Smith 98. Weaver 99. Woodcutter + 100. Roll Twice on the chart.

*- Has the Spell Read Magic only and can use Magic User scrolls.

$- Has the 0 Level Thief Skills of PL 11%, FRT 9%, PP 18% CW 44%, HIS 8%, HN 1-2

%- Starts out with a Long Bow OR Short Bow and 12 arrows.

+- Starts out with a Hand Axe or Battle Axe.

<- Can cast Clerical scrolls.

Roll 1d4 HPs modified by the Con score.

Roll 1d6 x 10 for gold for each character.

Start out at -500 XP

Start Playing!

My god this looks fun as hell!

The Gangs of Raven's Keep

"In a little Barony far far in the Western Frontier"

Gangs are a problem in any kingdom or empire. Here are a few that have moved into or formed in The Little Barony.

Bonstas - A really vicious and tough gang that is empire wide.
They believe in blood and fear.
They are know for killing every person in an area to send a message.
They also know how to disappear when the law comes to take them out.

The Foreigners - They are criminals from foreign lands that have no loyalty or ties.
They commonly take on any gangs in their way.
They also have many spys and assassins and can and will do espionage for any other foreign power.

The Ladorians- A thievery's guild specialized in robbing nobles.
They are ran by a sect of evil clerics who worship a god called "The Ladder".

The Daggers - A lowlife guild of thieves and thugs.
They don't know when to back off and are not very careful.
They also take anyone who wants to join if they survive the beat in.

The Martins - A very large and organized group much like the Bonstas but with seemingly more class.
They are in league with devils though.

BACK to the DUNGEON ZINE for LL/AEC V1 I2

BACK to the DUNGEON ZINE for LL/AEC



https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzYaSvmA-OpUcWpVRDJNY3RXcUU/edit?usp=sharing

Here it is issue 2! 100 rooms on second level!

See if your players can survive!



HERE also is an UPDATED V1 Issue 1.1. which has 110 room on first level!

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzYaSvmA-OpUVkNUNTNjRUpGMTA/edit?usp=sharing

Back to the Dungeon V1 I1

In a little barony far far out in the frontier...


It is a ZINE, it is an adventure for LL/AEC.

It was written many years ago.

It is the first level to the Megadungeon called The Black Stairs.

It would be really fun to run it using LL/AEC but people around here look at the OSR stuff like herpes.

Only in times of great boredom will it ever get any deeper or will another issue come out for it though the next four levels are all on paper.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzYaSvmA-OpUaEsycmlnNnBmNEU/edit?usp=sharing

On the Other SIde of the GM Screen: Playing Pathfinder

Oh I get it!

Now that I have finally played a few times and not ran Pathfinder why my players were kinda ticked when I wanted to convert to LL because I did not have enough prep time.

They flat out did not want to loose their cool characters and all the skills and powers.

I started playing with some old schoolers recently because I just lost the spark to run anything. I wanted to play. GM burnout you know! I was somewhat disappointed that with this old school group Pathfinder was the only game being played. Damn. I made a Wizard who was a Necromancer.

Not the best idea when I discovered that there were two LG Dwarves in the party who hated UNDEAD and Druid! I was not evil just LN and believed that Necromancy could be used as a tool to serve mankind.

But damn all that clunk when playing Pathfinder is really cool. The little extras they added from 3.5 just really rocks from a player's perspective.

Damn!

Here I go with the gamer ADD and insane flip flopping but I have not had that much fun playing in a very long time!

It's also the company as well. These players are a really good group (not that my group was bad we just are stagnant IMHO). They are what you would call nearly professional gamers. Best of all the DM is this multitasking dude who is running us through Temple of Elemental Evil mixed seamlessly with the Pathfinder setting. Awesome...

Except I now Have found out I will be working nights on a turnaround for some ungodly undetermined amount of time making about 80+ hours a week. Thank god I am hourly!

Oh well the GM is going to go all the way through Scourge of the Slave Lords and Against the Giants. I hope I will be done with the turnaround!

ANON

Back to the Dungeon LL/AEC Zine!

So here it is the first Back to the Dungeon Zine Volume I Issue I. I have been working 7 days a week and up to 12-14 hours a day but finally have a fatigue day so sorry for any incomplete or half finished crap. Hopefully the damn links work but on blogspot it never does, has, or will work.


https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BzYaSvmA-OpUMlVUNDBTcGpTOEtVUTNMUjhoNHE4Zw

I really hope that more amateur publishers with delusions of grandeur start producing more Zines.

Back to the Dungeon Zine Part III

Getting closer! It's going to be 44 pages long. Can't fit the second level that will be next zine depending on response. Got to add treasure according to LL/AEC so the chart is generous.

Back to the Dungeon Zine Part II

Things progress well.
Editing will be horrendous, things will be "mostly" done with many holes for you to fill in, as well as grammar but that's what I like about a zine! The first two levels of "The Black Stairs" is really looking good. I am going to put the monsters back that my various players killed out in order to make the dungeon refreshed.

I hope to add a bunch of little worthless articles that just add flavor and background such as a postings post. Things like "Adventurers needed for Flying Potion Experiment: People with any loved ones need not apply".

I hope to release Temple of the Monkey God as a zine soon as well.

Things at work went haywire on day shift so I had less "ass time" to finish up my zine as planned. It does seem that the universe is against me gaming!

Back to the Dungeon Zine

Guess what in my exile from all life called a turnaround for at least the next few weeks I am going to be cutting and pasting my notes from "The Little Barony: Raven's Keep" and possibly the first two levels of the black stairs as well as the one level dungeon Bloodrock Castle. Also the area map where one inch equal five miles.

I am putting it in a little foldover zine pdf inspired by the Ryth Chronicles and the Mikidemia Towns of the Outlands and The Black Tower. Been reading that between the writing sessions.

My how far we have come in gaming and how far off the path we have went.

As long as my people behave on the job it won't be too much of a task for me to write my little booklet. If people like then I may write more.


Ryth Chronicles LINK
http://www.risusmonkey.com/2011/06/ryth-chronicle-1975-1977.html


Midkemia Press
http://www.midkemia.com/

FREE PDFs.
Towns of the Outlands LINK
http://www.midkemia.com/Towns.pdf
The Black Tower
http://midkemia.com/BlkTwr.pdf

CFRPG Goblin and Dog Man (Kobold)

A few post back I posted the stats for a Goblin and a Kobold for LL and PFRPG. Now I am going to post the stats for CFRPG.

Goblin AC HD1-1 Move2 Damage 1d6 Weapon and Ranged.
Small 4' tall evil stinking humanoids of various bestial looks. They only live to destroy. They are the ancient enemy of the dwarves but the plague all when they come to an area and multiply.

Dog Men AC14+ HD1-3hp Move20 Tricky! Daggers 1d4 or Shortbow 1d6
These are small evil cunning creatures that look like 3' tall men with dog's heads. Also called Kobolds by some! They only exist to breed and kill out mankind and their kin.

That's it. That is all there is to it. If I leave off the description it looks even shorter.

Goblin AC HD1-1 Move2 Damage 1d6 Weapon and Ranged.

Dog Men AC14+ HD1-3hp Move20 Tricky! Daggers 1d4 or Shortbow 1d6

One thing I know when messing with the OSR type rules is simple to write an adventure. Creativity flows with rules-lite that cannot flow as they do with rules heavy.

SO with all the rules out there why the hell am I writing another game? Well I am not writing a Retro Clone per say I am writing a Neo Clone. I was thinking about writing a rules variance for LL/S&W/OSRIC but those are their own game. They have their charm but class race and class race restrictions as well as level limits as well as some of the mechanics just need to be left out and changed. They to me are just not any fun.

My daughter's boyfriend was getting ready to play a Labyrinth Lord/AEC and he wanted to play an Elven Ranger. When I told him of the rules restrictions he just didn't seem interested anymore. Why is that restriction there? For no better reason than to retain the spirit of the old rules and no other. Yes I should have let him just play it but why is the restriction there? It makes no sense. Elves live in the wood and they should be rangers and Druids. The OSR needs to let go of the restrictions and come out with each their own "Unearthed Arcana" rules variations.

At the same time if someone wants to play any old school game restrictions and all I am there!

Rules should be there to facilitate role playing not restrict it. This game I hope will be one of the answers

I have decided that this game will be from the hobbyist approach. This mean the game will be free and I am even going to include instructions on how to print it out and make your own fold over booklets. There are plans to make a version to sell but really it's going to be done for the love of the hobby.

Return of the Heroes

Return of the Heroes

So what is a Return of the Heroes? It's the game to get some of the old group back together as well as invite new ones. First of all you need to have everyone recollect their favorite characters or a combination of their favorite characters. Give them 6050 XP and start (re)making characters. You could also make the players the children of their favorite characters! Tell them to not buy equipment as you the DM will make an equipment list for them. Give them a minor few magic items and such.

Next start with the adventure. Try and reuse or rehash old villains (or the children of the villains). This automatically makes the party join together and be ready to fight. Remake and expand you dungeons of old. Really go all out on this.

Ronvug that evil wizard is now a Lich and he has many minions out there! The players will have to get more powerful to defeat him!

Deep in the the wilderness in the middle of a caravan attack is how it needs to start and the goal is the Tavern in the small walled keep or town!

Where were the characters coming from? Were they at war or on a quest that required them to all separate and years later come back together?

Now they have all received a summons to return to their old meeting place. They have heard dark news that their old enemy (or his offspring) have returned.

It is a time for the Return of the Heroes!

Why do some think Dungeons Suck?

Why do some think Dungeons Suck?

You hear this crap all the time from old and new school gamers. With a defiant sniff...

"Me and my players don't like dungeons. We believe in deep role-playing. Dungeons are so boring. Just going from room to room killing stuff, It's so boring and blah."

Well Then whomever has been running (and writing) your dungeon needs a bit of schooling. If you limit your game to "no dungeons" then you are doing it wrong.

FIRST When creating a dungeon don't just make rooms fill it with monsters and start playing.

ADD FLAVOR!

All dungeons should have their first purpose before they were dungeons. In my huge megadungeon "The Black Stairs" it was originally an underground colony from some unknown time.

An underground city populated by humans long ago then something terrible happened! It seems they all just disappeared or left in a great hurry.

Nature should also play a role in a dungeon. In the black Stairs water has worked it's way in many places. There are two waterfalls that now pour through huge holes that go deep into the dungeon never filling it up. In some cases if one drops down can access the dungeon from multiple ways other than the front door.

There are also chimneys that are pouring out smoke from unknown depths as well as tracks and trails showing that this dungeon is a living place.

Dungeons should also have factions and some some way of trade and commerce though some are connected to the mythic underworld and have no rhyme or reason to them.

If a dungeon is large enough then there should also be various interested parties other than the PCs. In my Labyrinth Lord version there is a huge group of NPCs that belong to the local adventurer's guild who have staked "official" claim to the dungeon. A large party of over 12 NPCs. Always increase NPCs if the players were foolish enough to go back to town and brag on their adventures and show off all the treasure they found.

In the Pathfinder version I did not have time to make them (Cause the system is a clunky mess of too many rules) so they are just found dead.

You should use various descriptions to portray a sense of ancientness and oldness. The players should be able to feel the textures and smell the smells of the place.

Also make odd traps and tricks that strike the fear of death into the players.

Add elements of video games such as doors that can ONLY be unlocked by certain magical keys.

Have various NPCs from civilization give the players quest to find certain objects within the dungeon.

Let many treasures not all be gold jewels and gems. Sometimes and ancient set of books, tapestries, furniture, clothing, wine, or whatever can be the most valuable treasure.

Many intelligent monsters will be ready for the next visit of the adventurers with ambush and traps.

Maybe even a less intelligent pet is corralled for the PCs to encounter...

ANON

I quit playing 4E for an undetermined time and other musings

Well I told my gaming group that I was just burnt out on 4th edition. Yep I know that is former post I said I was going to put away my OSR setting and embrace the 4th edition and just shut up and play!

AND play we did. I was playing a cleric. The battles were few but LONG. We had in the past discussed that the players need to know their characters and use strategy. Much strategy was used and many monsters fell. It still took too long and many battles just drug along.

Due to my job I had to give up the DM chair and we had some of the other members running games.

The system is fairly clunky. The monsters have a full page of stats. Why? Worst of all everything except minions has way too many hit points. Why would someone design a game in a way that purposefully makes battles last over 30 minutes?

I thought they play-tested it for over a year. How can there be so much errata? Then the Essentials are coming out which is a whole another version.

I remember one battle where a character did over 30 points of damage to a gnoll and this had just only bloodied it after 20 minutes of battle.

Slow. boardgamish, no story just battle, well I just stopped having fun or at least very much fun.

I had suggested many times for my group to try my LL mega-dungeon but I always got the blow off and the statement "I only like 4th". I always stated that we did not have to stop playing 4th but every so often try another system.

The standard answer was "I only like 4th" even though many of them have never played anything else or very little of anything else. In the past when anything else was going to be ran they would not show up that day.

So we were back to the every Saturday only playing 4th edition and it stopped being fun. I mean I love my group of friends but every weekend we were just playing a game and using per encounters, dailies, healing surges, too many hit point, too much math, too many rules, and it just got all the same. I asked my wife and my 14 year old what they thought. They too had not been having fun for a long time either. That settled it.

What about the fear of your character dieing? What about running out of spells and supplies? What about having to go back to town to heal up? What about it being a challenge?

A game where your character had fought and clawed his way for every XP he ever got.

SO..

I told my players for an undetermined time no 4th for me and soon I will be playing something else. The reaction was not surprising and I was not surprised by "I only like 4th and only want to play 4th" and one of the players said that if any other game was ran "he would not be attending".

I was even schooled on how I should have finished the 4th game that we were playing and then they would think about another game.

I did not recall asking them to stop playing 4th nor would I ever. I do not want this to end friendships but they seem to be taking the less than savory path. I will continue to be friendly and hope the best for them.

I only asked for them to try another style of gaming and was shot down for at least as long as I have had this blog save a few sessions.

OTHER MUSINGS

So the new Red Box is out? It only cover 2 levels. Gee sounds like a sample more than a game sight unseen. Gee I told WOTC to do that back on their forums during the first really crappy 3rd edition boxed set.

It's causing a stir and that is good and now the OSR Game Writers need to get off their asses and make a real basic set.

There needs to be a LL/AEC, OSRIC, BFRPG. and/or S&W (S&W is already kinda basic though) intro/basic set.

It should cover all the races and all the classes up to 5th level.

Have a selection of monsters and a guide on how to play as well as an adventure included.

Make it cheap. Get it out there!

A boxed set? Possibly but the OSR publishers need to get off their asses and take advantage of what is going on.

The Black StairsNPC party idea

Well up till 3:40 in the morning drinking fine vodka(because I ran out of bourbon) and working on my huge maps. About a hundred rooms per level. It's going to be a massive undertaking for anyone to take on this dungeon.

Once again I came up with a twist. One of the monsters I rolled up was an NPC party.

Now that can be interesting in itself as on a previous session the NPCs that were not hired went to the dungeon to explore on their own and best of all attack the weakened party to steal their stuff.

But why not give them more of a story?

When the players reenter the Black Stairs there will be a letter claiming the dungeon to the Raven's Keep Adventuring Society. The letter will also say that only sanctioned RKAS members may enter the dungeon if not legal action will be taken on the offenders. On the back will be a waiver of liabilities and a HUGE list of more that 15 NPCs in the party.

How will the players react to this? This is the dungeon that they bled in many times and now some upstart is claiming it?

This should be pretty good...

What to do? Should I use OSRIC or LL and the AEC?

Should I use OSRIC or LL and the AEC?

Both are good.

Both have merits and such.

My FIRST experience with gaming was the Basic Set with the Earl Otus cover so LL is a natural fit and with the AEC it plugs in the "advanced" style of play with the "basic" style of play.

OSRIC is the "advanced" style of play apologetically.

Which system do you like out there and why?